The Boldness of an Anonymous Commenter
Wow-great responses on the modesty post. There is one comment, however, that blows my mind. A student at Southern (an anonymous student, mind you) has boldly (while hiding behind an anonymous name) repremanded me for caring about modesty among Christian women. Here's the comment our anonymous friend made:
All I have to say is this: GET REAL!!!! We do not live in a bubble just
because we are Christians and Seminary students! Do any of you actually
believe
that these guys really want girls to cover up??? Come on. You
people
are a joke.
Being here at SBTS I have come to realize one thing:
The people
who are "of the
world" are much more honest, real, and caring
than anyone I
have met here. It's
up to each person what they wear or
what they don't
wear, I don't really care.
Quit being Pharisees; share
Christ with people
instead of sharing our
Puritanical Baptist ideals.
So, "anonymous," all I have to say is this: YES!! I really do believe that guys at SBTS want girls to cover up! If a man is fighting to stay pure, he should want girls to cover up! Let's get this straight, though. In marriage, his wife can wear whatever she wants. I would even encourage married women to dress immodestly (in the privacy of their home) for her husband. A bride's body should be celebrated by her husband.
It is probably true that in his flesh, any guy would want a girl to prance around wearing next to nothing. However, for those who live in the Spirit, there is conviction. There is an honest desire to please the Living God who is both loving and just. This applies to the things that they look at, think about, act on, etc.
I want to create awareness for females. Believe me-I was once the worst of the immodest girls. I didn't have a clue about how the male mind works. I knew that if I wore certain things, I got attention and it made me feel good about me. That's as far as I understood my immodesty to go. The Lord opened my eyes to understand the reality of disgusting sexual sin and lust that is often caused because females love to show off their bodies with tiny skirts, low-cut shirts, and other revealing styles that are popular in Western culture. I am not saying that in order to dress modestly one must dress in an unattractive manner. Rather, I am strongly suggesting that if one wants to be fashionable, there are flattering styles available that are also modest.
"Anonymous"-GET REAL! Lust is a very real sin. Sexual sin runs wild in our culture. As Christians, why should we be involved in it ourselves, and also tempt others to fall into the same gross sin? Please, take John Ross up on his offer. Have lunch with him.
I appreciate (although the anonymity loses much of my appreciation) your desire to share Christ with people. I also desire to do this. However, if a girl's cleavage is hanging out of her shirt while she points to the Scriptures, she can create a major distraction from the message of the gospel. Does the Lord still use girls who dress immodestly to further his Kingdom? Yes, I believe He does. Doesn't He use sinners to accomplish His purposes every day? Yes, of course He does. However, He does so despite our sinful natures.
Other readers-what do you think about this? I would especially like to hear from other SBTS students. Does modesty really matter? Will a Christian be held accountable for the clothing that she chooses to wear? Do SBTS guys actually want SBTS girls to dress modestly?
posted by Nikki Leigh Daniel @ 7/05/2005 10:45:00 AM
15 comments
15 Comments:
Hey folks.. I chime in:
http://slimcontact.blogspot.com/2005/07/put-some-clothes-on-woman.html
I always hear that we shouldn't expect non-Christian women to dress modestly, and that is true, but we should expect our sister in Christ to fight for modesty - Christian or not! I don't care if a man doesn't have a problem with pornography, or if a woman is married because there are so many things that immodesty brings.
Women become or at least flirt with...
- addiction to the attention they get from males
- materialistic
- improper self-worth
- ect. ect
Men become or at least flirt with...
- Adultery
- Purity
- Degradation of the female body
- ect. ect.
I recently read an article that said, 'modesty is coming back in style. I personally lose a lot of respect for women when they dress immodest because I think it displays a lot more than the eye can see.
A quick story...Brittany (my wife) are going to Fl at the end of July and we were looking for bathing suites. She asked me about everything, what we proper and non-tempting (for other men). I was so honored that she wanted to save her body for my eyes only. And it makes her that much more sexy.
So, keep on preaching Nikki- maybe this 'Southern student' will come out of hidding.
Wow, I have been edified by reading all of these comments- aside from "anonymous" of course. As a woman, it's important to hear and to know that Christian men appreciate when we women are modest. It's an affirmation and an encouragement.
Let's pray that the Lord raises up more men and women who teach their daughters and other people's daughters to be modest, and their sons and other people's sons to fight lust and affirm modesty in women.
Hey- It's me, "A-Train". HA, funny. Anyways, I have been convicted by all this, and would like to ask for all your forgiveness in this. Although I am still too cowardly to step out and admit my identity, I do apologize for the comments made. I should have kept them to myself. I will say this, though. Although I do agree in theory that it is right for all to dress modestly (male and female), I must still admit that I don't exactly turn my head away from girls showing skin. It's just not my nature. It is actually what first attracted my eye to my now wife so many years ago. Anyways, sorry ya'll. No harm, no foul I hope.
Hey, Anon... Thanks for being brave enough to ask forgiveness after this firestorm of criticism! I'm sure everyone appreciates it, and if we're really trying to practice what we preach, that forgiveness is yours! Thank God!
I just want to say that it's great that you can celebrate your wife's physical beauty now that you're married. But a couple of rhetorical questions: Do you think she would be OK with you "not exactly" turning away when you see other women showing skin? Or would you be OK with other men seeing your wife's body flaunted around? On to the real point:
Apart from the fact that lust turns God's precious creations into objects, isn't marriage at the forefront with issues of modesty? A man whose physical characteristics I fixate on is another woman's husband (if he's not married to her now, he will be sooner or later). A woman walking around campus who gets stares from the men she passes is another man's wife. Scripture tells us that her body belongs to him, and his body belongs to her. I don't have the right to look at a man's body if I'm not married to him, and a man doesn't have the right to look at a woman's body if he's not married to her.
Of course it's not easy. Sometimes it would be easier just to walk out of Wal-Mart without paying, but we don't have the right to do that; it's stealing. And we similarly don't have the right to look lustfully at someone else's spouse, regardless of how conveniently exposed they are; it's mental stealing and adultery.
It's so natural to gawk at a good-looking specimen of humanity! But that's why Christ took on our nature: to redeem it. It's so great that we don't have to give in to lust or make excuses for it like the world does. God's given us the tools to overcome it.
Holy cow, this post is long. Sorry!
Laura-This is why I love you. I've been thinking about how to respond to anonymous and you just put my thoughts into words.
Anonymous-I also appreciate your apology, but the issue was never the fact that you stated your opinion. One of the reasons I blog about controversial issues (sometimes) is because I want to see both sides of the issue. I really like that you were willing to post your disagreement. That was never the issue. The issue was (is) your view of lust and immodesty. I can't change your opinion, but I at least have to attempt to show you the other side. I am really trying to be a disciple of Christ in my dress.
Great points, Laura. Anonymous-do you think you would honor the Lord and your wife more if you did turn your eyes from other immodest women? Also, have you read Every Man's Battle? I'm told that Joshua Harris has a book called "Not Even a Hint" that is really good too.
Anonymous, I am bothered by one of your statements. You said, "I must still admit that I don't exactly turn my head away from girls showing skin. It's just not my nature." If you are in Christ, you have been given a new self. It IS your nature (in Christ) to turn away. It IS your nature (in Christ) to seek purity, no matter how difficult that may be. It IS your nature (in Christ) to honor your wife by admiring her body, and only her body. It is your flesh that wars against you, and Scripture instructs us that we MUST fight the desires of the flesh everyday. I do understand that the Christian life is a constant battle against the flesh that will not be perfected until eternity, but it seems that perhaps you're not even drawing your sward when it comes to lust. Instead of fighting, you just pass it off as "human nature." This is not fair to you or to your wife. I would die if my fiance were looking at other women and passing it off as human nature. But he regularly assures me that he refuses to look at other women. He only wants to honor me. I encourage you to think about this seriously. read through Paul's epistles that talk about the old self v. the new self, the flesh v. the spirit, and be open to what God may want to teach you.
I have to be honest, i haven't read all of the comments so what I am saying may have been said already.
I went to a bbq at a friend's house for the 4th of july. Now this particular individual is a male. And he is usually surrounded by girls. The mumbers at his house were amazing...although given the history of his friendships, not surprising. there were probably 25 girls and 5 boys. I was amazed at the outfits these God-seeking girls were wearing. i didn't stay long. I felt uncomfortable in part because I was so self-conscious (ironic since i had on the most clothes in the room). I was also amazed that these God-seeking men were encouraging the immodesty by showering the scantaly-clad with attention. I knew many of the people in the room and honestly i was disappointed. i know they love the Lord. i know they want to honor Him and yet there they were interacting in a sickening display.
So where are we going wrong? Are girls that naive to what their shorts skirts and low cut shirts are invinting? Are men really that ok with the sin they fall into over and over to not encourage women to dress more modestly? And why is it that girls are encouraged to be modest and yet guys take their shirts off and are not confronted about it at all. i know it's hot and you are cooler without the shirt. But we get hot too and yet are expected to keep everything on. I don't care if girls are supposed to deal with gossip while guys are lustful.... Men do gossip. Horribly. I've witnessed it. And Women lust....horribly. Don't believe me? Well, then I must be a freak of nature because i struggle with it. Last i checked sin is common to all. It doesn't prefer one gender or race or age over another. So what can we do to fix these issues? How can the church better educate her members to be aware of sin and know how to combate it personally and as a body? I don't know....just something to think about.
Hey Ya'll- It's me again. I just want to say thank you to everyone in this blog. I have honestly learned a lot about myself and my problem through it. You all are great, and I thank God for it. Laura Beth, I have decided to "draw my sword" against my lust. I have made my wife aware of all this, and have told her to help me keep accountable in this battle. Nikki, I will begin reading "Every Man's Battle" very shortly. Thanks alot for all your help; you all have turned out to be great examples of Christ in caring enough for me to help your injured brother. Please pray for me. God bless.
I think that a girl who dress modestly is so much more attractive than someone who isn't. There is not only a respect and compassion towards someone of the opposite sex that they would do everything they can to help them from stumbling but there is also a deep respect of themselves as a beautiful creation of God. Men see this and i think are more attracted to those. Men in the church should feel this way. Thank you to the girls at Southern that do think about this while they are preparing for their days. It is noticed and appreciated by the guys on campus.
Very thought- provoking last few posts, I must say. Now for my two cents (which normally wouldn't even buy ya a stick of gum). I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of the folks here. It disgusts me particularly how this standard of dress and behavior has been pushed into the realm of increasingly younger people. I cannot stand how companies feel like they have to take it to another level by reaching girls early with questionable items of clothing with disgusting phrases such as "eye candy" printed on them. I mean, COME ON! It is bad enough that this is a constant issue with women, but pre-teens is altogether sick. Our morally bankrupt, pragmatic society will only go further-- even in the face of already existing, dramatic repercussions-- if retailers feel that there is a demand for such things. Supply and demand. It is not beyond us as Christians to be able to turn this type of thing around. We don't even have to be "cunning as foxes" about it. We merely have to be more exoteric about our faith. Create the demand for modesty. The solutions are manifold, but I think that one of the many is just being aware of the products that are targeted at our children (I speak collectively, here. I'm only 22-- no wife or kids). If in fact we can reach kids, they'll significantly reduce this kind of market that targets children as well as those that target those as adults (when the kids grow up-- a sorta double-whammy, heh).
On a positive note, I was pleased to see a commercial for women's long skirts (I think it was an Old Navy commercial). Kudos to the unnamed groups who made that happen... There must have been a demand for them. I guess the point to make is that we have this dilemma because of laxity of morals, people who desire dishonest money, and yes even our laxity as ambassadors of Christ (And boy does this count for me as well). We gotta couple our preaching with practice, even if it means pulling the ol' "tough love" angle when concerning whether or not our sons should see "Dude, Where's my Car?" or whether or not our daughters should be playing with "Bratz" dolls. My apologies for a lengthy post. My apologies again if I'm not making any sense-- I work night shift and got home not long ago.
Pax,
Random Danny
I just realized how much my kids will hate me one day, lol.
Just wishing to throw in a comment (sorry it is so far removed from the original posting date).
First, yes it is generally helpful for women to err on the side of modesty. I'm glad to affirm this.
Second, I believe the issue at hand is much more complex than to serve the heaviest portion of the guilt upon the ladies. I believe both parties have a role in the lust issue. Sometimes the guy easily lends himself to an unchecked eye, and sometimes his eye is caught off guard.
What I find incresingly difficult for the female (as is pointed out in Lauren Winner's recently released "Real Sex") are the manufacturerd in the clothing indutry. Basically, Winner states (and I agree) that if you want to wear respectably modest clothing, you're going to have to pay a much higher price, as the cheaper clothing retailers (Old Navy, Gap, etc.) are manufacturing trendy, more revealing tops and bottoms, as this is "what's in."
Basically, I believe this is a communal issue the body of Christ needs to tackle together. We do ourselves no favors to heap an inordinate amount of guilt, burdening one sex of the other in the matter. Truly, a woman can be modestly dressed, and a willing fellow can still have his mental way with her if he wishes. Modesty helps, but it is not a cure all for the willing male.
I guess . . . I just find the guy has an easier out at times if he can find an immodestly dressed woman to pin it on. Not saying at all here that modesty doesn't matter, because I do believe it has a role.
Thanks for allowing me to add to the conversation,
signed,
a happily married fellow of almost 5 years.
Nikki,
I was just wondering do you ladies have any particular designer that creates modest clothes?
In God we Trust,
Jason Vaughn
myspace.com/freedomfighterforever
I am thankful for a modest girlfriend.
Thanks to all those people that helped me find her ;)
Post a Comment
<< Home